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I Watch More Movies Than You
I Watch More Movies Than You
'Sinister': The Scariest Movie Ever Made?
Ever wondered what makes a film truly terrifying? Put your big boy pants on and join us as we journey into the nightmare that is the 2012 horror masterpiece, 'Sinister,' directed by Scott Derrickson and written by Robert Cargill, my favorite horror filmmaking duo! Discover why this chilling film left such an unforgettable imprint on a generation, and why we believe it marked a resurgence in the horror genre as we know it today.
The opening of Sinister is one you will NEVER forget, and although this film maims you with its brutality, it grounds itself with its humanity and heart. Ethan Hawke brings Ellison Oswalt alive in a way only he can, with a mesmerizing performance through the pursuit of his true crime white whale, and balancing being a present husband and father. But there is more to this film than ambition, even more than just fear itself- there is a true look in the mirror and you're faced with the thought- what if I don't matter anymore?
Sinister scared you from the jump, but the emotional beats never miss either with brilliant on-screen chemistry of husband and wife, but let's not forget the demon in the room.. Bughuul, the Eater of Children's Souls. The film's demonic entity, and its ancient pagan connections going all the way back to Babylonian times, is truly a face you'll never forget, a darkness you'll never truly escape. I don't want to give too much away in the description, I implore you to give this episode a listen and travel with us through a vacuum of darkness, where seemingly not a single light can be found. There are many threads to follow in this masterpiece of a horror movie, but with the amazing Scotty D behind the camera you will not only have no problems doing so, but you'll see some of the best lit shots in modern movies. Scott Derrickson is more than Dr. Strange, The Exorcism of Emily Rose, and Blackphone (although those are all great), he and Cargill are creators of one of the scariest movies ever brought into existence- literally from a 'Ring' induced nightmare Robert had.
Sinister is a horror film that you don't get right up after watching, you'll need a minute. A reminder even, and a hopeful sigh of thankfulness that you were able to come back to our world- one without Bughuul and the innocence of children tainted. Or so you thought, wait until you see what makes him so special... and terrifying.
Scary movie season is here, although it is 365 in my house, so get ready for Halloween by scaring your pants off with this amazing movie. 'Sinister' is a force to be reckoned with, and I encourage you to watch it right away, prior to listening to this, and allow yourself to get scared again and reminded that fear wasn't left behind in childhood.
And please, if you enjoyed our deep dive into Sinister, I'd politely request a sharing of this episode with your friends, and maybe a 5-star review if you'd be so bold- I'd truly appreciate it!
LONG LIVE HORROR, LONG LIVE SINISTER! Sinister is on Amazon Prime now! Go start your spooky season!
Open the pod bay doors. Hell, I'm sorry, dave, I'm afraid I can't do that. Here's Johnny. Can I help you? Yes, my name is Bob James. Bob, make your lives extraordinary. Rasp. No phone too. No phone too. When there is no more room in hell, the dead will both kill you. Welcome to. I Watch More Movies Than you, and please take that as a challenge. What else on earth can you spend 10 bucks and then leave the planet for two hours Only movies? Come join us as we experience, explore and journey through the greatest art form in history. Then where are we going?
Speaker 2:Welcome back to. I Watch More Movies Than you. You got Ken, you got Rob and we're gonna cover the scariest movie of all time, maybe Interesting. I want to find out. I want to find out what people think we're gonna cover. I'm gonna get right into it. Scott Derrickson, writing partner. Scott Cargill sinister, that's right. People, we're going in the sinister to get you acclimated to the spooky season. When one of the ones is gonna scare your draws off right off the bat, we're gonna reveal your pumpkins. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:That's like a college, yeah, exactly that's interesting, but we're just going for it, like, why sinister? Because it's awesome. That's why sinister. We're gonna do a deep dive A little. You know, a little movie criticism, a little review, we're gonna get into sinister. Came out in 2012 Bobby.
Speaker 3:Did you see this in theater in 2012? Yes, and I loved it. This is one of those rare times where I can tell you exactly where I was sitting in the movie theater when.
Speaker 2:I saw it.
Speaker 3:Is it interesting? No, it was just. I remember the day like, I remember who I was with, I remember what theater we were at, I remember the showtime, like because it left kind of left a mark. I think it's because I did a little bit of research before coming over here. I think it's because we were in a very interesting time where horror movies were. We had Hitchcock level films and then we had some really great slasher's and things like that. But I think we definitely hit a lull and then this was maybe the start of those coming back.
Speaker 2:I think, yeah, and there's some random goodness in the 2000s too, like Darkness Falls, the Grudge Ring, you know, in the late 90s when you had a.
Speaker 3:You know, the Ring is responsible for this movie. What'd he say?
Speaker 2:The Ring is responsible for this movie? Are you saying that because you saw my? Tweet oh do you know that tweet?
Speaker 3:Yeah, he had the dream, but he had the dream because he watched the ring Right.
Speaker 2:The Grudge and the Ring are different in movies but they're both good. You said the.
Speaker 3:Ring though which one did he watch. You said the Grudge and you said the Ring. He watched the Ring, the Ring. He got in that marriage. I know the movies are different, ken. Well, they're both. J-hor they're both, really You're J-Hor.
Speaker 2:They're kind of a show. J-hor is amazing.
Speaker 3:Have you watched the original, not Ringu, not the Japanese one. It is terrifying.
Speaker 2:I thought they all were.
Speaker 3:They all got me. They are I mean the American versions too.
Speaker 2:I'm not trying to sound, no, but I've heard. I've heard it.
Speaker 3:But I went back and watched. It wasn't even my ideas, with someone else who decided to do that, but we watched, yeah, the original Grudge and the Ring and it's. They're terrifying.
Speaker 2:So to give people I agree. Well, he's referencing a Scott Cargill. This came to him in a dream, A nightmare where he goes. He just responded to me on Twitter, by the way.
Speaker 1:As.
Speaker 2:Robbie was driving over here, which is kind of wild or axe, whatever, I guess whatever. And I asked Mr Cargill. I said, is it true, robbie G? And he this came from a nightmare? He said, yep, I dreamed I found a box of films in my attic, spoiled one up, and it was the first scene in the film Wow, which is crazy. I wanted to say this to a preface sinister, to give a little background to the director, scott Derrickson. I'm an enormous Scott Derrickson fan. Okay, a lot of people know him from Doctor Strange Yep. More recent, the Black Phone, yep. He also did Delivers from Evil, sinister, the Exorcism of Emily Rose.
Speaker 3:A lot of people. I remember that from high school. Yes, it's exactly right. I remember that from high school because I had a friend who looked just like her.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's wild, it was weird.
Speaker 3:We flat out called her Emily Rose for like a year. Really, that's funny.
Speaker 2:I can't remember what she looks like. So he did a short called Shadow Pride. I think he did that with his son over the pandemic. Davey Erickson still Hellraiser. And Furnaw, which is a direct-to-video one Loving the ruins. They are doing some stuff with those VHS anthologies Going to shutter him. And Scott Cargill I don't even think that's on his, that's not even on his credits here on IMDb yet. But I'm a huge fan of Scott Derrickson. I think there's a reason he was chosen to do Doctor Strange. I thought that was really cool. First of all, it's going to be Guillermo del Toro and he said no Interesting, so that's a little fun fact. But then it was Scott Derrickson. And they say that because Doctor Strange correct me if I'm wrong came out in 2016. This came out four years before. That, they say Sinister, is why he got Doctor Strange. Yeah, I can believe that and I think his Doctor Strange is amazing. You know how much I love Sam, but genuinely I think the first Doctor Strange is a better film.
Speaker 3:Yes, I do.
Speaker 2:I think it's Leagues Better. I wanted Derrickson and he's so graciously congratulated Rami when it came out. I wanted Derrickson to stay on the project. So bad Deliver some evils. All his movies are awesome. So this movie it was hard to see coming. But another level to Scott Derrickson, because this is a deep dive into Sinister. We're going to talk about the director right here and then get into the film. Is I particularly resonate with him as a Christian who loves horror?
Speaker 3:Oh, is he really yes?
Speaker 2:I watched a super long interview he gave with like a priest or something, and they got it. It's a podcast. Find it on YouTube. It's old, old, old old and he gets into. I don't know, it's an automation. I know he's a Christian. That's as far as I care, you know. But it's a really interesting thing because it basically In the other interview I saw this little French kid. It's like you're making such horrific and disturbing things. You know what I mean? Yeah, and yet this is your belief system, and the coolest thing is because you ever read the Bible.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I get that. We've talked about that before, about how, like, in a weird way, horror is the one area where, more often than not, spirituality is the good guy.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:It's usually about fighting off the demons, the evil, you know, yep.
Speaker 2:And he has much more. He loves to show when he thinks of horror as catharsis. He thinks releasing something in a safe environment is so fun and entertaining. He thinks there's an artistry to it that's unique to horror that he loves to be a part of. But another one he talks about with his actual faith. Look at the exorcism of Emily Rose Lovers from Evil.
Speaker 2:I remember as much in his movies as he said he loves to show good over evil, he says he likes to be reminded of it. Then, no matter how dark it is, you know, here's the light. And then comes Sinister, and that's what the guy asked him. The guy pressed him on and his answer was interesting. He said that Sinister.
Speaker 2:So anyway, that's why I'll say this, that's why I love Scott Derrickson, because I also believe me or not, I'm also a Christian, I'm also a philologist and I find horror fascinating. Really is where the heart is. I mean, if you look behind you, all the DVDs, all of our favorite Friday the 13th, the Halloween, to Ari Aster, to the Shining, to everything We've just made our you too, of our home in this, our home in Stephen King, our home in our Elstein, to go even younger, you know scary stories to tell in the dark and I've just always been fascinated by it, and I think he was referencing Revelations when he was saying that, because there's a lot of like really horror themed stories I don't know as well as well as it should, but he's a really good dude.
Speaker 2:He's a cool guy and when he's open about that and also has his Hollywood career making some of the scariest movies ever made, I find that fascinating. His favorite movies I'm gonna do this off the top of my head. I'm gonna try. His three favorite horror movies are the Changeling, the Shining and the Exorcist.
Speaker 3:Okay, I was gonna, and I'll get more into it later, but it's obvious, the Shining here. I knew it, I agree, yeah, I agree, and it obviously has a Dude.
Speaker 2:More on this rewatch for me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, same same, same, same, same yeah.
Speaker 2:It's weird, it's so cool, it's so rewarding.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, there's definitely Shining influence here. Yes like a lot.
Speaker 2:Oh, I mean Kujo's, literally mentioned in the movie too. It's like Shining King, but I actually took that note down before here.
Speaker 3:This feels very Stephen King, like I actually stopped to go wait. Is this based off? And it's not, obviously, but I mean he loves it. Down to the writer who can't seem to get his stuff together. We'll get into it.
Speaker 2:Which is also a lot of Scott Derrickson. Ethan Hawke even looks like Scott Derrickson in this, by the way. Oh, interesting, almost to it too. Can you see this?
Speaker 1:Oh, oh wow.
Speaker 2:He said he wrote a lot of himself to even the point of drinking buffalo trace, which when he was writing he used to because it's cheap but it still tastes good. Interesting, yeah, so I started as soon as I watched this movie back then I started drinking buffalo Hard to find, okay, well, question.
Speaker 3:This came out in 2012, so I was looking at. I was looking at movies that came out around that time. We're set for the people, though you saw this in the theater right, yes. That's 11 years ago we're and I asked this because there's a I asked this for a specific reason on how I have viewed this movie then and now. Where were you in life then, when?
Speaker 2:age that was 11 years ago 22 for me. Yeah, it's 33, 22,. Yeah, 22, yeah, oof Like Wild child.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You were in your party phase, I lived my own hot rod. Were you living here, living in Florida? Do you hadn't known your wife yet? No, I have not. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Not, not officially at church, like we really did, right, some weird coincidence stuff at UTC, or yeah whatever.
Speaker 3:UTC yeah.
Speaker 2:With some same friends, some crossover there, which is crazy Interesting.
Speaker 1:I remember thinking she was hot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mission accomplished you know what I mean. But she still is. She's gorgeous, but no. So I would say no, I mean officially no.
Speaker 3:22 Wild child own apartment had the 79's, each 28. Where are you working? What are you doing? What were you doing in your life?
Speaker 2:I think I was working at JC Penney Nice.
Speaker 3:Really.
Speaker 2:I think so.
Speaker 3:Yeah, in 2012, I think.
Speaker 2:So the Hamilton Place one Northgate, northgate, okay, never mind, I was either at JC Penney or whatever came right after it.
Speaker 3:We gotta talk about that after the thing. That's interesting. Okay, so I was. I would have been 23. Yeah, 23.
Speaker 3:Yeah 22, 23, depending on when this movie came out. Right, I was looking on my own, I was about to. I was a little under a year shy of moving, a little over a year shy of moving to Murfreesboro, so I watched this. The reason why I say this is and I know you're gonna get into the details of it, but your main character's a writer, he's also a husband and a father, and the movie largely wrestles with those two sides of his personality.
Speaker 3:And his pools and so at the time I very much connected with his like writer side, because I think we probably talked before on the podcast that like I'm sort of a writer, like I've written a couple of books that have gone absolutely nowhere, and so I related to that version of him back then. I have a completely different perspective on his character in the rewatch.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:I literally did the rewatch like two hours before coming over here, so it's very fresh on my mind, and so are you writing a novel right now. What do you do, people? He's typing an angry letter to his congressman, I believe.
Speaker 2:No, I'm responding to Scott Cargill, who wrote the film.
Speaker 3:Oh, wow. I thought it'd be cool to respond to him on the podcast. What a name drop. Yeah, what's going on over there?
Speaker 2:I decided it sounded neat to. I cannot spell but to respond to him. And there it is, because he confirmed and responded to me that Sure enough was that I want to say this I agree with you entirely that watching this movie in 2012, I'm watching it now, as it shouldn't be. Thank God, we are not the same people. You know what I mean. And this movie was the levels to this film and Ethan Hawke's performance, to be honest with you, which really grounded the entire thing, but I had a much better.
Speaker 2:It was already one of my favorite movies Based on a visceral fear level. This evoked in me, but now I think it's even a better movie Because I'm picking up on emotional levels and beats.
Speaker 3:I didn't care about it that much I couldn't have. I had no experience with them yeah, before we go in, why don't you give them the premise and the people and the things and the what nots?
Speaker 2:For the people.
Speaker 2:I am the man of the people, sorry, people. So Sinister came out in 2012 From the producers of Paranormal Activity and Insidious. Ever heard of him? Mm-hmm, a controversial true crime writer, bobby I'm just kidding, a writer finds a box of super eight home movies in his new home, revealing the murder case he is currently researching Could be the work of an unknown serial killer Whose legacy dates back to the 1960s. Let me give more than that Mm-hmm, because it's I think it demands it and I can do it just from memory anyways. Okay, so to give my summary, people, you get dropped in your opening scene first of all Is the most disturbing opening scene I've ever seen In a wide theatrical release film. I'm so glad this was a rated R movie and didn't stick to the Insidious PG-13 that they originally were going for.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, if you look at, this is where I was going a minute ago. If you look at what came out in 2012, like this was the horror movie of the year. It had to be, because One it's a good movie, but also there's not a lot of I mean, like Prometheus, that's not even I don't think he'd call that a horror movie Dark Shadows, somehow. Two Resident Evil movies Frank and Weanie Would you rather A bunch of other C B string horror movies? This was it. This was kind of like this is what was going on. Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2:In the Last Will and Testament. I agree.
Speaker 3:So yeah, this movie had it kind of had the the real estate on horror movies for the year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's interesting. And then before it was Insidious, this was Blumhouse's like he also did paranormal activity and he's friends with Ethan Hawke, by the way. That really helped him land this, Because Ethan Hawke before this Wouldn't really do horror. I want to say he didn't respect it, but it wasn't his thing.
Speaker 3:And now look, he just did the Black Phone last year, which was Another Blumhouse and Derrickson and Karly. Yeah, and that's probably one of the best horror movies I've seen in a while. Wow really. Sorry people, he's just deciding to write a dissertation. It's funny that it's two. The writer of this movie that I was going to watch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do that on your own time If he would give us trivia during this. That's what I'm trying to do. Why don't you just call him, just have him on. Dude, if we had, I have wanted to do phones Like a hooked up phone and take call. I really have wanted to do that. I'm just hoping he'd give us some insights while we're recording. Yeah, but I'm not that busy. Well, they're on a strike.
Speaker 3:That might help us. I hope that comes in. By the way, yes, I hope it comes in soon.
Speaker 2:No, but there's a lot of weird things to make this movie From the idea. When Scott Cargo ran into Scott Derrickson in Vegas, he had the nightmare. The next week Scott Derrickson sells it. They write a script together. In five weeks, this movie's in theaters within a year of them talking that's crazy, that's nuts. That does not happen. That simply doesn't happen. And this level of quality? Yeah, because this is not a cheap movie. This is not like a lot of people can think. Horror gets a bad rap sometimes. If something's ultra scary, it's gory.
Speaker 2:Where it's a bunch. You know this is not that at all. This is genuinely terrifying and disturbing. So I just want to say I really wanted to echo what you said. It hit me on levels as a dad now, as a husband now that it did not when it was 22.
Speaker 3:Yeah so, and those kids? So basically, yeah, he's a true crime writer. He has had some success with this in the past. A couple of books back. He's no matter what he says. He's trying to chase that 15 minutes of fame again. So he moves his family to the house where a horrific murder happened, which he neglects to tell them that this is the house where it happened.
Speaker 2:He even promised yeah, he wants Truman Capote's in cold blood.
Speaker 3:Yeah yes, yeah, and he, this is white whale. So he's really looking for his fame and fortune, his fortune and glory, if you will.
Speaker 2:And the guys of this was so interesting, and the guys of Provision for Family, right, right, he's convinced himself that I, yeah, I think so, yeah.
Speaker 3:And it's so interesting because, throughout this, his wife seemingly does not care about the fame and fortune and she's so supportive of him she's very supportive of him, but she also just wants him to be the family man and to reign it in because it's unhealthy for him. At one line she says you're already getting into the whiskey. That means she knows that throughout his writing process he gets to a dark place, which this also echoes Stephen King right.
Speaker 2:Right and true and writing true crime. He covers grizzly murders, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and she's. She even tells him at one point like go back to fiction, like go try fiction again. He's like no one cares about my fiction. At one point he is watching a old Interview where he was on like a daytime talk show or something. Yeah, and he talks about how he's just he's just interested in injustice and bringing justice to these things and blah, blah, blah, and it's clearly bullcrap, like it's clear.
Speaker 3:It's clearly like clearly he does not. He even says in the interview he doesn't care about fame and fortune. But he and later when he's talking to his wife he says, like you know, she's like I don't care about the money, the fame he goes. Of course you do, everyone does. It's so interesting because, like I said, that's pretty, that's a decade ago, when I saw this, I was like I'll root it for him to have it all.
Speaker 3:I wrote it for him to get the book deal and to, to, to sell the book and end with him being this like prolific Stephen King as writer and in this. Admittedly, I haven't watched it that many times over the over the last decade, but on my rewatch today, my reaction was you're an idiot. Yeah, wake up. And everything that, everything bad happening in this movie is because you can't let go of anything, because you're trying to have everything that you want and it. That's so. That's so common in horror books and movies. Because it's a parable. Yeah, it's, it's. It's a lesson, it's, it's a. It's a boy who cried wolf type fairy tale. That's what horror is is, yeah, you, you, you, you mess with the wrong thing, or you have this vice, or you have this addiction, or you have this sin that you can't Let go of or you indulge in or you're obsessed with, and it leads to Just a myriad of destruction of your life. Yes, yeah, it deconstructs your life completely.
Speaker 2:In this case, he finds spoilers right, like we're yeah, ok, we'll say we are going to spoil this and, if you want, this is a good time for me to walk through the walkthrough I was going to like in a fast way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah go for it so we can start spoiling. Yeah, we're going to spoil it. The go watch sinister pause right here. Incredible movie, worth your time, one of the prolific horror movies I've seen in my lifetime. So and I don't just throw that around, but maybe I do, but I mean at this time, yeah, but much like you what you were saying, and that's his white. Well, so we we're opened up on a horrific super eight shot of families all standing outside with nooses around their neck, mm, hmm, it stays on, that grainy footage and then pretty soon the tree limb they're on is offset by another one. That one breaks and they start lifting off the ground, hmm, kicking, and then they're not anymore, isn't that?
Speaker 3:you've seen hangings and movies before, but isn't that such a creepy? Yeah, just the tree branch following.
Speaker 2:You know it's neat. Yeah, it's called a call. Let's call it something. Wait, I had it in my. I actually reviewed this movie three years ago. On my watch more movies than you. Youtube channel oh well, yeah, uh, I was on the can earlier. I was trying to watch.
Speaker 3:I remember what you said, yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, keep it consistent. I've been obsessed with sinister for a very long time Interesting. That's why, with the new job changing everything, I wasn't going to be able to do the three. I picked something that I know that is going to be firing off the you know what's interesting I I really like this movie.
Speaker 3:I I think I took more issue with it this time than I did the first time.
Speaker 2:Really. Yeah, not a lot Not not a couple more glaring things?
Speaker 3:Not enough to even knock it off Whatever status I had it up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Just just a few things that made me go.
Speaker 2:This is shoulder for I think we probably will have some Convergence on a couple of those. But so we get that scene. He's with his new family, right. The cop pulls up, doesn't like and choose. What's that about? Why do you point at the house? He lies to his wife? It's one of the first signs you can tell he's he's straying. Yeah, right From the path, if you will.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and beautiful shot of him going after that, going into his house, going to the back of your back Through a window that shows the backyard and you see the tree. Yeah, with the broken branch to let the people know he's lied his way into the lion's den.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so to speak, and it doesn't take long for goings on. It's like you said, he's he's writing for this book. He already started. He busts out the Buffalo Trace early. Yeah, his poor son. And one of the first scary scenes we get, which is actually directly out of Scott Derrickson's life, by the way, his son had night terrors.
Speaker 2:Not only did he have night terrors, that one where he's walking down the hall, he's starting to freak himself out. Right, he's looking at some of the most gruesome super eight videos you could even imagine right out of the night Marys of Mr Cargill. And we got him.
Speaker 1:But the ghoul we're all dead.
Speaker 2:So one of the things and one of the reasons that you super rate was Blumhouse really, really wanted, because at the time Jason Blum, at the time what do you call it? Found footage is just pretty big Paranole activity and whatnot. But Scott Derrickson doesn't like it. He's an old school, traditional filmmaker. Yeah, he likes big, beautiful scene shot, you know actual camera, yeah, nice camera blocking lighting, but he found a way to do it. But I think this is a way to do both.
Speaker 3:You did it, yeah, super eight and I thought he nailed that and I'm so glad because I think I think the movie benefits from having traditional filmmaking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because he's so talented behind the camera. This is a beautiful looking.
Speaker 3:It's yeah, the drama you get. That's the thing is that like it's a technically like a horror movie, but there's a lot of drama. There's a little bit of a who done it kind of a suspense thriller, had a little procedural, a lot of hats.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:This movie wears. But yet some of the scary to me, some of the most most bone chelou moments are him reviewing the footage. But it's not just being in that POV of the found footage, it's seeing this product that's decades old and then cutting back and seeing his reaction. Yeah, that's key, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is seeing, is seeing how?
Speaker 3:he is. It's a movie of. It's weird because you're watching a movie of him watching a scary movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And so watching his reaction is kind of it is kind of odd, yeah, pretty unique, but it works. Yeah, yeah, pretty unique.
Speaker 3:To the point that you know it's been a long time since I've seen this movie, like I mentioned, but there are moments of the, of the, of the eight millimeter film that is burned into my brain. Yeah, like the family in the car, the barbecue one Etched into my brain Famous.
Speaker 2:I know everybody I've ever worked with since this came out. I could literally and I worked in movies, but like I could literally say the lawnmower scene.
Speaker 1:Everybody's first I go.
Speaker 2:Have you seen the sinister thing? Oh, the lawnmower scene. Okay.
Speaker 3:So I don't know what your criticism of the film is. Well, I'm sorry, go on. Yeah, go on with the quick one. No, no, you're fine, they're in there. I'm not listening anyway. Who.
Speaker 2:I'm not, and no one else, because you're tweeting Scott Cargo. Yeah, but the first scare is he walks through the hallway he's already got himself freaked out watching those videos and there's this box and out his shirtless son and his crab walk crazy, scream, I don't even know. He pulls his body out like he's about to do a reverse handstand. Yeah, that happened in Scott Derrickson's life with a son. How verbatim, wow. And it terrified him. And he so is a filmmaker that he says he doesn't try to manipulate audiences. He puts what scares him because he thinks is going to be what scares you too. Yeah, so then that happens and there's more goings on's right the kid? He has a nightmare, much like Scott Cargo, of the previous thing that happened at the house, which was the hangings, the daughters drawn some weird stuff to. He's drinking, he's looking into it. He recruits a deputy. Do you know a movie?
Speaker 3:That's so and so no, I don't I got deputy so he looks really familiar.
Speaker 2:But you have seen it and you liked it. He's in the new it really yeah, he's in chapter two. He's the grown up version of shut up, he is. Yeah.
Speaker 3:He's the grown up version of inhaler kid Right.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, james Ransone is his name.
Speaker 3:I knew he looked familiar.
Speaker 2:Yes, he, it chapter two.
Speaker 1:He was so good in this movie. He's so good, he's so funny. I forgot.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I got the comedic beats like when he's like, do you have a notebook? And he's just like searching all the way, he says yes, you need a pen.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Hey, he has some great beats. He is the best in the movie. Yeah, there's a 10 minutes of him in this where it literally let you breathe for a second.
Speaker 3:How funny it was I forgot that 90% of this movie takes place in that house.
Speaker 2:It does. Yeah, I guess that's how they did it.
Speaker 3:Or more than 90%, because it's just that house, and then the drive back to the old house, and then the old house.
Speaker 2:Were you jealous of how enormous his office was? Yeah, oh, his office was so cool, okay.
Speaker 3:So I wrote a note that when this movie came out, I was giddy about the fact that I also had a sweater like that. That I. That's what is specifically to write in.
Speaker 2:That is funny. Yeah, yeah, that's what.
Speaker 3:I was very happy about that. No, I also make my coffee the same way he does. French Press yeah, you did it.
Speaker 2:You found a way. I did it. I did it. People made the podcast somehow whiter.
Speaker 3:Um, it's already pretty white, my friend.
Speaker 2:Yeah, heck, yeah, um. So one of the things I thought was Nate as you dispute coffee on the carpet. Uh, hey, worth it was, um, when. When Ethan Hawke is watching Um, okay, let me get his character's name, alison Oswald L. You know when he's watching the films. One of the three is exactly what I would think to wider name.
Speaker 3:Who's that? What are writer's name? Right, it really is. Yeah, it's probably not his real name. It's probably like Frank Nesbitt or something. Frank Nesbitt's not bad?
Speaker 2:He's not. He's not, it's called busy. Go on Um. He says he's watching his disturbing murders take place and he goes. Who made the film? And that, yes, haunted me. Yes, who made the film?
Speaker 3:Yeah, who made the film, and then why Where's Stephanie? Yes, yeah. Because the child is missing.
Speaker 2:So he's, yeah, so people. What he realizes is in his research and deputy so-and-so he recruits is there's a bunch of films on super eight in the attic. He's watching them and, even separated by decades, there's a lot of grizzly murders in the one common piece besides absolutely horrific ways to die. Uh, which looked beautiful, to be honest, in that super eight really well done yeah.
Speaker 1:Um you'll never forget them.
Speaker 2:Uh, was there's a kid missing out of every single one of them.
Speaker 3:Yep, yeah, they did the math yeah.
Speaker 2:They're like if we have a serial killer because you know this is ground in reality, right, still true crime, procedural at this point, yeah, we have a serial killer. Um, he's going to even throw you some subversion, like the kid having the night terror. You know these real normal things that could be a little ambiguous. Uh, he would be about 60 or 70. Another commonality that they're realizing is the families are all drugged. They're drugged. So he's like okay, he could be old because they're drugged.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, he says he. He mentions that every all the murders are done very, they're very calculated. Yeah, so you don't have to be like, uh, a stout, overpowering person to pull these off Correct and a missing kid from every single one of them.
Speaker 2:Okay, so he starts putting two together. He's I mean, he's going down. You can see the rabbit hole Like he's. He's drinking more. He's going down it. He gets into it a little bit with his wife. Um, because you know the families, the daughters having issues, the sons having issues, she's having issues and he I thought maybe you'd relate to him here. You're just he's just trying to write.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's, it's. Yeah, you know what I mean All work and no play. There's another, there's another reference Uh, I don't know if you caught it. Um, so I don't want to skip ahead. But there is a moment where the son has another night care incident. This time he's out in the bushes in the middle of the night. Yes, so he goes out there to get a son and he goes back to get his flashlight, and when he does, that's when he sees the Cujo like dog.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:And his baths over there. And he goes I'm, I don't want to hurt you, I just want to grab my bat in case I need to bash your brains in. And it's, I wrote it down. It's just like Jack Doris, I wrote it down. This guy is essentially yeah, is essentially Jack.
Speaker 2:Doris, yeah, you can do this, you can. It's what I was going to say. It's kind of neat because before Stephen King, a lot of horror literature and movies, uh, stemmed from HP, lovecraft, yeah, and I truly am a believer that we're on a Stephen King. I love the B at the same time as him. He just had Holly come out today, by the way.
Speaker 1:Oh, nice it was in the dark cover in the book, but we he has.
Speaker 2:he is that now his influence in American horror cinema, American literature, everything is on, he has a grasp on it, he's grabbing and it's everywhere His tendrils, I mean I, they really are. I think he's that big, I think his influence is that big, I mean.
Speaker 1:Scott Cargo even said it in this one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Uh, I, I look at it and I see it everywhere. It's like Jim Carrey in the number 23.
Speaker 3:It's the shining, yeah, I. Oh interesting. Yeah, yeah, I agree, I think I think in modern American horror you're either. You're either inspired by Stephen King, and so your work could be reflective of it, or you have a disdain for it, and you're trying to do the exact opposite.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Either way. I think you are influenced by it, but that's a great way to put it. Yeah, um, and I think it's neat though. So Ellison realizes basically that Stephanie's just the tip of the iceberg. Yeah, there's all these grizzlies, murders. I mean, how how have you go in that room, turn on that little projector and watch? He's in the dark. He's always in the dark.
Speaker 3:I thought the same thing. I literally wrote down my notes, like why are you not watching this in the middle of the daytime? Yeah, that's what I would be doing with the lights on and the windows.
Speaker 2:He's pretty brave. He went out in the uh and that's not really something to focus on with him, but when he went outside back for his flashlight I thought it was pretty brave.
Speaker 3:It is. There's an obsessive quality here.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:There's a there is a part of him that I think is ready to just be self destructive in the name of the art, in the story in the book.
Speaker 2:I think yeah, because one of my notes, I agree, is I put so because, um, his wife was saying he's always just one more hit. Yeah, just one more right, cause he hasn't had a hit in 10 years, since the blood of Kentucky or whatever it was. But I put sinister the price of fame right, because there's a lot of different and it helps. The Ethan Hawks performance is just other world, like he's so talented.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree with you that on my, on my rewatches the pop. One of the positive things I'll say is I did not realize how great the performances were.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 3:There's a moment, there's one scene between him and his wife, which I think all most of the best scenes are between him and his wife.
Speaker 2:Oh they're lovely and the dialogue's so real.
Speaker 3:He says writing is what makes me feel alive, which I used to relate to. And then he said my books are my legacy. And I used to literally say that anything I wrote were my children. I used to say that that's wild. And then she and I think at the time, like are you saying this to your wife right now? You have two kids in the room.
Speaker 3:And then she literally says literally we are supposed to be what you live for, where you're meaning, yeah, I'm going to. You know we're married, this is supposed to be your meeting and your kids are your legacy. That is what you pass on and that is so true. It is so interesting that he has gotten to a place to where he is so lost.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That he's just desperately trying to hang on to Dude. I thought the same thing with Jack Torrance.
Speaker 2:You have a lovely wife and a beautiful little boy, you know, and you're trying to ax them and there's obviously some different supernatural and in here, but this shows it even before that involvement.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there is a straight selfishness to them.
Speaker 2:I think man's madness is an obsession is probably the reason we got to the moon, but also the reason, you know, we have a 50% divorce rate. Yep, or alcoholism is at an all time highs, or you name it. Yeah Right, like there is this something about being a civilized and taming it, you know, and letting it work for you. Madness is sexy, there's no doubt about it. Like I remember, like when I watched this and I like the right I don't do it as much as I'd like to and stuff, and he's having his whiskey and he was doing whatever Like that's. That's like looking at the rock stars and you're seeing them on their own stage or hearing what it is, but now, as I've aged, I'm like what's their family life like?
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, I mean, since seeing this movie, we've both gotten married and had kids. Yeah, so, yeah there's a, there's a different perspective.
Speaker 2:That's depth to this film for me, because one to speed up where I was going through my little thing, all the murders and we start getting there's some goings on. So meaning when he goes out in the Cujo dog right, what that Cujo dog existed or didn't, I've kind of had myself thinking it was so dark because if I can write behind him, or a bunch of kids.
Speaker 2:the kids are the kids that we're all missing, yeah, and there's this apparition behind him and he goes back in and things get. You know, they get definitely weird and we have a lot of bumps in the night in the attic. Yes and they have a lot of squirrels and snakes. Don't have legs.
Speaker 3:Deputy, so and so was like I don't think anybody's up there, it could be squirrels, they have feet. It's like I stopped on a scorpion when I moved in and he goes. Well, they have feet, but they wouldn't make noise. I'm glad you said that though.
Speaker 2:We saw a scorpion, we saw a snake and then we saw the dog. That's why I thought maybe maybe there's something there because there's hints at, because I thought it was a cool juxtaposition where he's in wherever normal town, really much, you know very much in reality, and then these things are happening that are not native there.
Speaker 3:You know right, yeah, kind of omens in a way.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, yeah, that there's something more sinister at play. I think they add that kind of like this isn't a serial killer, right? Not in the normal sense, so go please.
Speaker 3:No, I was going to say, is speaking of it being something supernatural beyond a serial killer. So I have a praise and a criticism almost simultaneously with this movie in hindsight.
Speaker 3:And now, okay, can I preface first by saying I think part of this is because I watched that when I first watched this movie it was in a theater. When it came out in the dark, I had no idea where this movie was going. Despite not seeing it in a while my rewatch I knew, I know how this movie ends, I knew where it was going. So there, some of that tension was alleviated. Here I didn't. I didn't experience that. So I don't think this movie did not scare me as much on this rewatch, but I think it's just because I knew where it was going, right.
Speaker 3:That being said, one thing I kind of wished and maybe this may have been very much a studio note, so maybe this is just a common thing and it's fine. Whatever, I think that jump scares are fine when they're necessary and super effective. Sometimes I think they're not necessary 100% and I think that's my biggest criticism in this movie is that maybe too many jump scares. They didn't need it, you didn't need it. That's what I said. That's where I'm going into the praise.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:The scariest moments to me in this movie is one when he's hearing and seeing things go bump in the night and when he's watching these super eight films and is seeing this figure just randomly in the background, yeah, like in the shadows. Those are terrifying moments. A moment to compare it to. I'm going to compare it to another movie that came out a few years before this, the Strangers, which is one of my favorite horror movies.
Speaker 3:So the most bone chilling moment for me is Liv Tyler. The main character is basically people. If you haven't seen it and I'm not going to give spoilers to the movie, but it's a it's a home invasion movie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's just the home invasion, yeah.
Speaker 3:That's the simplistic way to put it. And there are these characters outside her house or the cabin she's staying in and she's frightened, so she's looking at all corners in the windows. At this point we do not know that one of the villains is in the house, and so there's this moment where she's in the kitchen and she's kind of looking at a window and behind her I'm getting chills. Thinking about coming from a. Coming from a dark room into the light is like one of the bad guys.
Speaker 3:You can stand in a suit with that mask mask and it is terrifying, and that's similarly to how I felt in this movie where he is watching these horrific things happen and then there's something sinister in the background. Right, that's bone chilling to me. There's something creepy about old film to me yeah, I agree, and invokes a time that I have nothing to do with and I don't understand altogether and I can find that that can't be very to me. I find it, I can find I can look at old pictures and I can find them. They're very creepy or I can find them very sad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's always me, because they're all dead now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, a lot of them, a lot of them. It's just people that don't exist anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I look, I look, you know I believe they so was on everything. But like I look at them and I'm like I wonder, like in that moment, how happy they were. What was their life?
Speaker 3:I feel that way about old music and I immediately wait what I feel the way about old music. Yeah, I think it's the first song from the 60s? Yeah, did he ever get that girl yeah?
Speaker 2:And then I immediately go to though what's it going to be? I wish I could hover over the shoulder. Who looks at that picture of me one day. Yeah, you know. Yeah, I can tell him. Yeah, it was awesome.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, my God, yeah yeah absolutely, but I have the same point.
Speaker 2:There is something eerie about going in and out of like different time periods?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've always, and so seeing seeing the same figure in each, yeah, and I think that's the best thing, about this film.
Speaker 2:That's horrifying, is it? Those weren't scary enough?
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know what I mean. This movie also. It almost pulls off a horror story that is already over. Yeah, I mean if he was just consuming video and pictures and just seeing this horrific figure in the background. Maybe that'd probably make a better book than it would a movie, but that in and of itself is scary enough.
Speaker 2:I would say almost like what if like the alternate ending to this movie, I won't get into it. Yet it's not this. It's him going mad and then pulling a Jack Torrance and then being successful. That's the non supernatural ending. But and then I you know people go watch this movie because basically what transpires is there's a ton of scary scenes that a podcast is going to do you justice. That happened to one of the most, that lead up to one of the most horrifying and dark endings I've ever experienced.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what makes this movie work, though I wanted to say too, and why it's. It's not just Ethan Hawke, it's not just incredible camera work. You know Scott Derrick's director. He's just. I have so many shots that I'm just going to go over at some point, like there's an, there's one where Stephen Hawke, stephen Hawke, tony.
Speaker 3:Hawkins? Yeah, tony Hawkins is there's no he's.
Speaker 2:he's lit only by because, like the lighting that Scott Derrickson can work with and pull off is amazing, and Ethan's only lit by the projector lamp and he's sipping his Buffalo Trace in the dark. I just had a moment where I could have paused it, like I said, hung it up on my wall. Oh, yeah, it was gorgeous film, oh yeah, and like more and more, there's another flame shot with the car, with the family being burned alive inside their car, and then but you know it's beautiful is the flames reflecting off Ethan's glasses.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, there's another shot. There's another shot like that where it made me wonder if they just did not want to show it on screen like straight on.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because it was maybe a little too heinous? Or did they want to really drive home that this was getting in Ethan Hawke's characters like mind? But it's when the family is getting their throat slit, yeah. And you see a shot. You're watching the film and you see the knife go up to the woman's throat and you think you're going to see it right there. And then it cuts back to Ethan Hawke.
Speaker 3:But then you see it through the reflection of his glasses and you see that you actually do see it, so it almost almost like it's a quick cut to subvert your your view from it, but you end up seeing it anyway. You just see it.
Speaker 2:Come along. If you see it straight on, it's not that movie, it's not, this is not that movie. But then seeing it through that, this adds like a layer that keeps it from that movie yeah, through his glasses.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think that it is not going to be that movie because it cuts away, but then you still see it, yeah.
Speaker 2:Because there is one thing about sinister is there's a level of brutality where it doesn't leave you ever. This movie I will. I will go to my grave and remember scenes from this movie. I cannot say that about every movie.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, no. Yeah, this movie sticks with you because I remember it scars you. So I remember seeing this. Okay, so I remember seeing this movie in the theater with a couple of friends of mine Nick and Heidi and we watched. The movie came out and I specifically remember getting in my car and kind of being bothered that I was by myself. Did you check your back seat?
Speaker 2:I don't know. Of course I do. I always do that.
Speaker 3:Um, similarly, rewatching this movie today, I'm like this is great. It's not as scary as it used to be to me and I still stand by that. However, you think it's because we watched it during the day. I think it's because that, and I already knew what was going to happen. Yeah, that's big, that's big Um, which I don't think happens for every horror movie, but I think I think there is a dilution when you watch horror.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like this, like the shining somehow avoids that, for me that's what I'm going to say.
Speaker 3:The shining is the outlier, because I think there's just so many layers to it, yeah, that you can find something new to get bothered by. Really this movie, though, despite me saying that I've watched this movie today, I took a shower that I came over here while my wife and kid were gone. Um, while all this was happening, I was in the shower, same at the movie, and almost had a psycho scene. I I was hearing footsteps. What I think it was was my like 75 pound dog, but I'm not. I'm not sure I'm hearing footsteps and I'm was legitimately getting creeped out. Yeah, I was legitimately like yeah, that's not yeah, that's not all right.
Speaker 3:That's not that tells you where this hits.
Speaker 2:I think another reason too is uh, all the great filmmaking, all the great acting is accompanied with one of the best scores I've ever heard in a horror movie. There's this ominous wailing that it truly accompanies you on this scary story but makes it seem always, it makes it seem ancient, worse than it appears. Somehow there's this lovely dance of sound and picture. So he liked Steven's Steven.
Speaker 3:Ethan, do we know who did them? Sorry, sorry to interrupt no music.
Speaker 2:I will find out, um, but as Ethan Hawks going through his house with a flashlight. If you don't have this accompaniment of, like this liminal lo-fi nightmare, uh, because like with the music, he could have been going through like sticks and hell at the bottom of a temple, like it made him for me really feel like he was in this story older than him.
Speaker 2:Like there was something on a level past what you can see happening, and the music was that powerful, um, and then um Christopher Young, who His name is, christopher Young, the composer, wonder what else he's done. Shout out Christopher Young.
Speaker 3:No, let's, I'm gonna try to find out while you're rambling on, or whatever.
Speaker 2:And then thank you. Um, so then we did. I think too. Um, when we are introduced to the occult imagery, uh, the next position you do get, uh, I like how they kind of do it because it's through, I guess, skype or whatever where our character, uh, elsa Naus Walt, starts seeing that figure in the background, this, this slipknot band member. Uh, first time you see that. Crazy, the one, the pole, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:We have the super movie people, where these people are duct taped to chairs, like lay out in the sun and then pulled into the pole. And you see this, this figure, this ominous white thing with the really held by back by waves of the water and the reflections you can barely see at the time, towards Ethan oh yeah, every time one of those is specifically moved towards him.
Speaker 3:giving you that, giving you the uh, laying the groundwork to let you know that this thing's alive in the images.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I thought that's neat, so that's one of the biggest issues some people had on doing my research, especially when he so he talks to Vincent D'Onofrio's character, professor Jonas Um, he is an occult crime guy. Right that the force that we're given the force will call when it gets really weird.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:He recognized the symbol belonging to Bagoul. Yes, which is actually out of Christian, uh history, apparently, that's one thing, scott Cargill talked about.
Speaker 2:He wanted that angle and what I mean by that. I need to look it up, but in the movie we're given it is and Bagoul. Is this ancient? Uh, there's a lot of stories about this, but not much, because most of it's been destroyed, going all the way to back to Babylonian times. This demon there's the eater of children's souls, um, bagoul. I implore you to don't Google it. Watch the movie first. Yeah, because it's such a unique demonic entity. Um, but I remember looking up the history because I think he's, uh, canaanites, it was a pagan deity. Um, he's not from a real world belief system, I don't believe, but I think in this movie he's supposed to be out of Christian Christ and Amino. But, um, he definitely shares a lot with, like Molok. Um, brother Molok, some other things. If you want to go down that, I mean go down that one with, like the Greek Discret, um, if I'm not mistaken, molok is I was just reading it really quick he's a pagan deity from the Canaanites and Aminoids. So, mate, I don't know if that's interesting. There is a.
Speaker 3:Greek character in mythos, but oh cool, so that that name was trans he eats souls of children. Interesting, so, but you get um. Is that considered vegan? Vegan? Yeah, no, okay, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:Great question.
Speaker 3:Speaking go back to Chris Freyong, our composer.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'll show you that real quick. What he's done. He's done a lot. He's done Hellraiser. He did Hellraiser 2. He did um, of course sinister. He did uh. And he did which? One of the nightmare in Elm Street's? He did Nightmare in Elm Street 2. He also did a movie called the Gift 2000. Have you seen that? Yep, it's awesome. He did the rum diary with Donnie Dubb. He did um. He did Bandits with uh, with Bruce Willis and Billy Bob Thorne. That's a good movie. Urban Legend, which is not a good movie, it is a. It is a horror movie from the late 90s and it is. It is so bad it's fun.
Speaker 2:I was saying yeah, that sounds familiar.
Speaker 3:It's one of those drag drag me to hell. Oh, sam, yeah, he also. He also I think he's got a credit here for Spider-Man 3, because I think Danny Elfman walked off that project and then he helped out and then Danny Elfman came back. I'm not really sure what happened there, but he was a part of that.
Speaker 2:Crazy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and Petsimitary 2019.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love this guy's like affinity for the genre and swordfish. Oh, Halle Berry. Yeah, actually, you know it's funny. I know about that, I haven't seen it.
Speaker 3:Oh, you haven't no not a not a great movie. Really it's one of the it's. I mean it's Is it early 2000s? Like it's one of those.
Speaker 2:This is I don't know, I don't know, compared to Twin Picks.
Speaker 3:No comment.
Speaker 2:So yeah, no. So Bagool basically is a stand-in for what every culture probably has, is like a nursery bugaboo.
Speaker 3:Right, well, they call they. You see him illustrated in some of those drawings and called Mr Boogie. So it's definitely a boogeyman type.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's Sandman type situation, which is all he actually kind of resembles game at Sandman alone.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, aesthetically, but so he talks to Professor Jonas over Skype Is that Joe, was that Joe?
Speaker 3:Yeah, joe Jonas.
Speaker 2:You know, you know, Vincent.
Speaker 3:Dinoffrio there. Yeah, yeah, he's a bowl.
Speaker 2:OK, different alleys together, yeah. He looks like a good bowler, though, doesn't?
Speaker 3:he, yeah, he looks like he has his own ball.
Speaker 2:Oh, he'd bowl the fire out of that thing.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, it's got flames on it.
Speaker 2:I was going to say a dragon too in the middle, and you can see through it.
Speaker 3:The, the holes are the dragon's nostrils. Easy, ok Are you taking a? Picture of me. What are you doing?
Speaker 2:No, no it's Well, I don't know, but for doing the same thing.
Speaker 3:Weirdo, he says he picks up his phone.
Speaker 2:As he scrolls his notes.
Speaker 3:But I thought it was me. I'm actually on DraftKings, but all right.
Speaker 2:Are you really? No, that's a meme. That would be me, but I thought it was cool. So you get that. Then, all of a sudden, this could be serial killer. But you're not a dummy. You've seen the kids now. You've seen all these other things.
Speaker 2:But you know a filmmaker can play with you on that as he, losing his mind, yeah, is he haunted by the guilt to have the pursuance of the obsession, the white will. And then all of a sudden it's like no, here's this demon, yeah, this ancient being that has an affinity for children's souls. And I think it's neat that Scott Derrickson took on kids being in his horror movie. Yeah, because famously some other ones that did it and kind of leave their mark, the shining changeling, the exorcist, the omen, some of his biggest influences, and he even spoke to that because he was asked in an interview and he said look, kids are innocent, they are. Our culture looks at them as this. As you know, they really do represent innocent art. To see their corruption is always disturbing. And then they take it to a whole another level here, because there's a bit of a twist. We find out about the missing kids, so come to find out, as, as we see our character you're not putting it all together it's like, ok, so Bagool, this demon, and he can't.
Speaker 3:He's like he's a crack man. What is that? That's what they call me in college Bagool. Yeah, mr Buggy, yeah, your boogers.
Speaker 2:He starts playing together. Right, these are all connected. But then he's like he has an awesome bit of dialogue. Is he another bump in the night? He's got his baseball bat and he falls asleep on the couch. We get this beautiful sequence where the it's a time lapse only in the window. And then the sun comes up and then he talks to deputy so and so you know, because he got real freaked out the night before.
Speaker 2:He thought he saw it and the guy it's so freaking funny, so funny because he goes, he starts talking about all this and ask about the family that was there before them and all of that. And I think it was really, really, really, really neat. Because what's that guy's name from? I just said it, let me give the people, as I'm scrolling, the guy from James Ransom. Also, fred Thompson played the sheriff and he was wonderful.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he was great.
Speaker 2:He's only like two sins, but he knows he does yeah knew his role, but they had that great bit of basically like Scott Derrickson is going over. Scott Derrickson he looks just like Ethan Hawks characters is you know? Lamenting to the deputy Like what he's? He is you don't think. And he starts naming off like I don't believe anything supernatural. Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah that's what he's saying. The guy's super skeptic. He doesn't believe any of it, whatever, and he's just doing all this. The deputy has given him all these pragmatic reasons for it's happening. He's sleep deprived, he's somewhere where something really traumatic happened.
Speaker 3:Maybe he's yeah he's drinking too much.
Speaker 2:Yes, he's drinking, because I see that whiskey bottle lower and lower every time and he says.
Speaker 3:he says so you don't believe in anything like that Because, oh no, I believe in all of it. I would never sleep in this house.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not a single night.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's fantastic.
Speaker 2:That was such good delivery, that guy was awesome, it really was. But so we, you know, we realize there's more, there's more going on here. And I say all that, like I said, with great like as I'm, we're giving you kind of top level on that, we'll get in, because this movie is a movie that I think leads up, leads up, leads up and then explodes. But like the middle, the second act, and then going in third part, going into his all awesome filmmaking yeah, again, great acting, incredible scores, bone chilling scenes, the callbacks as he goes deeper and deeper into these super eight films.
Speaker 2:But then, finally to, and then really, like you said, the emotional beat with him and his wife Tracy, played by Juliette Rylance.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she's great. She does a great job in this.
Speaker 2:Those two are awesome, those two. I think Ethan Hawke could have chemistry with a cactus. You know the four sunsets here, Like he's an awesome photo shoot with his daughter, by the way.
Speaker 3:Oh, it looks so cool. No, that's cool, they're just cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it just happens, Must be nice. I'm a big fat loser, no, but so as it moves on, you really get. I'm with you. Now I think I appreciate it. You know, a decade later, more so, that him and his wife are two decades. Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, two decades.
Speaker 1:No, decade, decade, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ok, how about to say I'm like we'll come back to it? Decade.
Speaker 2:And say it It'll still. This movie has etched its way into, for me, and to the horror, the genre film Mount Rushmore, so I will be talking about it, yeah. It really hit a nerve with me.
Speaker 3:So this is in your horror, mount Rushmore.
Speaker 2:It's in my and I want to actually ask the people is they're leaving that five star review for us and we appreciate it? What is it in that review? When you get a little typing space, let us know the scariest movie you've ever seen. But let me lead us to this so we can cover the ending and get into that. So little conversation we'll have right at the end.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:But this is one of the scariest movies I've seen. It's pretty scary. It was scarier in theaters 10 years ago. I watched it during the day. Today I still try to create it like I made it all pitch black in the basement and everything, but it was definitely scarier than when you didn't know it was coming.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I could still see. It still would make me uneasy if I was to watch it in a house alone like you did. I would. I would hear the same footsteps. Yeah, I would check my car. I'll probably do it tomorrow morning. Yeah, the butt cracker dawn. But then I started picking up on these other beats with him and his wife, the pursuit of fame and money, not understanding that. Look around you, you got it all, guy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you got it all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have. You have everything, everything. I thought it was really really neat, though, that as you also get him looking at his past self on videos and he falls asleep and his wife wakes him up and she never waivers.
Speaker 3:That's a wonderful wife, yeah, I mean she knows are obviously better than the best, but like she never waivers, and what's so, what's so refreshing about that is that she does have moments of frustration and she expresses that, and then they have real conversation.
Speaker 1:It felt like an actual married couple.
Speaker 3:Yes, Like OK, she's frustrated, that doesn't mean she's out of this marriage for the rest of them.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Yes, and it's not like she's loyal to a fault. I mean she's loyal, but it's not like she is looking the other way to a fault, like they're having organic, actual communication. And then later she's like, yeah, I'm sorry, like all this stuff going on with Trevor just got to me and. And then he's like, yeah, I'm sorry, I should have told you about the house, that kind of like they have actual conversation. It feels like a marriage.
Speaker 2:And even when he's going, when he's bursting, his steam is releasing, because this is my shot.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. And he's just going off. It's all believable because he doesn't take it to that. You know, movie that violent? Well, he doesn't take it any like that. He takes up his space. She's in hers.
Speaker 3:They don't stop loving each other. Yeah, yeah, but enough is enough. They just have very passionate points of views.
Speaker 2:Yes, and it is coming to a close. You can't tell. There are a lot of red flags, even in this. Probably what was a healthy marriage because she's like I'm going to take the kids to my sisters.
Speaker 3:I'm glad you said that because I actually wrote down. I should have looked at my notes, but I actually wrote that down because that's one of the first parts in the movie where you feel like there could be some discourse in their relationship. And that was the point to, because I was trying to put myself in that perspective. Yeah, if my wife, if, like, she was going to sleep and she was kind of fed up with me spending all my time trying to get a book off the ground or try to get this elaborate writing crew off the ground and not focus to the point that it's taking away from the family, Right.
Speaker 3:First off, she'd have every right to feel that way, yeah. Second, if she said that, that sentence and I still went into that office like he's still, he like gives her a kiss and he goes in the office, like it's going to be great, it's going to be great, at that point I was like you're delusional.
Speaker 2:Well, the camera pulls back and we see her face is not as happy as she was presenting Right, because, like what else would make it? He lied to her, he left in that moment, and what else would make them stay in the house?
Speaker 3:I if, if my wife had said that to me, which it would it would take a lot for her to actually say that. I would have to push her to an unbelievable point for my wife to say that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:If she did, I would not walk into that study for a month.
Speaker 2:Well, you know the awesome line in the office, though. David Wallace tells Jim because I know, as it wouldn't show up their golf game to save their marriage, yeah, after Jim turned down the job. Yeah, yeah I know guys that wouldn't show up there. So that is a reality. I can't wrap my head around it, thank God. Right but that is a reality. It is very interesting. So this is a very believable onscreen couple. It is, it is.
Speaker 3:No, it is. Yeah, I'm not going to go away from that. My thing was this shows the descent of his 100 percent.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, like it's, it's so. There's so many threats to follow in this movie. Yeah, here's Bagool, and he's not even really main stage when these two are talking. It's the descent of this guy in the madness Right.
Speaker 3:Really, I mean Ethan Hawke. He's not the bad guy, he's not. He's not quite the Jack Torrance Right Of the story.
Speaker 2:You can see that being one of his paths.
Speaker 3:But you can see it and you can see I stand by. They are in this situation 100 percent because of him, 100 percent. Bagool did not lure them into this house, into the situation. He sought it out, yeah, and the goal was just like yeah, let's let's party.
Speaker 2:That is interesting. You bring up a really good point, though, because let me ask you something. One of the things we find out in his journey in this movie is that Bagool, it's always a family, there's always X amount of kids and there's always one missing. Just so happens, here's another family with a couple of kids in that exact house, so did the murder just happened in? Is there a chance we have this cosmic, weird set in stone mess that Bagool can alter fate where there was something?
Speaker 2:where he created a way to lure that family. Yeah, because he is known to lure. He lures children, for sure.
Speaker 3:I think that's a possibility, for sure.
Speaker 2:Or is it? Yeah, I do. What happens if family never moves in?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I do think that's. I do think that is probably a possibility. However, I do think that Ethan Hawke's character had the Leverage to get himself out of that situation, which is where I love that you said that where this movie really what takes it from good to great.
Speaker 2:for me is as we move along in the film, people, he actually begins to figure it out. Yes, he does. And that's that's cool to see.
Speaker 3:There's a great moment where he has Put the pieces together that this creature is in every shot Of the super eight films and he takes his glasses off and you people, he can't see me, but he just like oh, he does his eyes over his face like this and it's, it's. It's the same look I do when I'm stuck in traffic.
Speaker 3:It's like he's going oh God, no, I have a. No, I got a demon I have to deal with, Like I don't, I don't have time for that. It's kind of, but also, but also in seriousness, it is like he's he has realized that he has unraveled something that he does not know how to tackle. Yes, because now it's not it's true crime, but now it's not. It's now it's not a true crime, serial killer. It's like it's not fun anymore.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, you're in a now you're in a dark place. And you're in the story. Yeah, yeah, now you're part of the story which is kind of neat because it's not there, you feel like you have this level of protection. The goal robs him of that innocence. Yeah Right, like, just like the kids. Yeah, but then that's like again this movie so powerful. Is he very real? Like I said, you believe every bit of it. The scripts tight, the dialogues incredible. The performances are wonderful.
Speaker 3:Now I'm going to upset my wife and other white women when I say this. Do you think there's some kind of commentary here on the true crime obsession you know?
Speaker 2:it's funny. I definitely could see it. I don't have it, so I'm like agnostic to it. I don't, I don't have, I don't like true crime at all, so I get too sad.
Speaker 3:There's been a few podcasts over the years. I haven't not a lot, maybe like three or four that I've listened to that follow a true crime thread and I I find it very interesting because and one of the reasons I find it interesting is that there is an and I can't I mean I guess there's not a lot of detail going to there's kind of an unsolved murder in my family. So there's part of me that's like kind of drawn to it. Yeah, also like detective stories. I think a lot of people are drawn to it. But in my wife likes him too and we've we've listened to a lot of the same ones and and the great part about is one of them that we listened to, somebody was wrongfully like accused and arrested and he actually got set free because of the podcast.
Speaker 3:So that's, that's that's that kind of stuff is cool, that's cool, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that sometimes we kind of forget these are real people, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, I will say uniquely I don't. That's why I don't know, yeah, exactly we.
Speaker 3:As a people I don't even like as much as like you see behind you all the horror icons.
Speaker 2:I don't even like Texas Chainsaw Massacre because edgy and actually killed people.
Speaker 3:You know, the stranger's is based off a real story.
Speaker 2:I didn't, yeah, I don't know if I knew that. Yeah, and those and those.
Speaker 3:Those folks have never been caught. Yeah, that's crazy, at least not when the movie came out. Is there a podcast about it? I don't know there probably is.
Speaker 2:It will be now. Yeah, 500 million listeners. Sorry, Tucker, Just pull his name out of the hat like a rabbit, but what makes sinister so special again is a strong you know. Direction of Derrickson. Writing of Cargill. Performances led by Ethan Hawke the score we now know by Christopher.
Speaker 1:Young.
Speaker 2:It's the layers you can follow, it's the believable on scene, marriage and relationships, those beats they just don't miss. And so you actually get this redemption arc in the third act mid, mid, a middle of third act, where he starts waking up. And it really helped because, like I'm trying to remember, but I think you went to the addict, crazy intent again at night. He goes to the addict and there's sorry to say that word again Attic.
Speaker 3:It sounded like you added a couple of T's in there. Attic, how did I say it? You said it like addict Erick.
Speaker 2:You mean Eric, All right go.
Speaker 1:Okay, he goes up there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he sees, he sees. I was trying to tell you he's ghost face. At ghost face, lamp shout out spirit Halloween. We will take you on as a spawn. I'll be the first time ever, actually spirit. Halloween I'll take your calls, but if not, I'm going to make my family Save me. I wish we could do. I wish we could do a podcast episode in a spirit Halloween that's a great idea, although the air condition in ours was broken for like five years running.
Speaker 3:It's just a gigantic like industrial fan in there.
Speaker 2:In the old Sears.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's good. Now they got it whole system.
Speaker 2:Oh good, but Ethan Hawke, ethan Hawke goes up there and he sees these kids that are obviously the missing ones. They look dead. Yeah Right, the material. Pardon me, excuse me. So it's Marley Red 100. And I know you're a big smoker and they're looking at the very reminiscent of what comes late All those in the book. It comes later in the 2017. They're looking at the projector play out but cool comes out and he jumps out of it after they all do the symbol and Ethan obviously falls back off the thing off the ladder.
Speaker 3:That was a creepy.
Speaker 2:That was creepy, that was very creepy that got me twice.
Speaker 2:And so obviously here's the skeptic who's now a believer, right? Yeah, he wakes up. What did it take? And otherworldly demon coming for him, but he wakes up. We see it go the other way a lot, jack Torrance. So then you get this amazing arc was like get out. He takes the videos out and he starts burning them, and that really was a cool song that plays I do not remember the name of it where it's counting in the background, there's always a lot of counting and murmuring.
Speaker 3:I believe it was. You actually know. I believe it was. Girls just want to have fun.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, I thought you're actually that's no. No, that would have been cool. No, and so true, bobby.
Speaker 3:Exactly how to grasp by Blondie what is actually hard of glass by Blondie.
Speaker 2:It was. It was that Billy eyelash song, the new one? I don't, I don't.
Speaker 3:I'm. I'm you know, I've, I think I've reached a point in life where here we go.
Speaker 2:I can tell when there is no more new music for me.
Speaker 3:I think, it's just I think it's just everything that I already liked.
Speaker 2:Just on repeat, hanson.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's, it's mostly. It's mostly Hanson.
Speaker 2:One day.
Speaker 3:No, it's mostly Hanson and.
Speaker 2:Tucker Carlson. I quote because you said, and I quote his interview style is like music to my ears.
Speaker 3:No, it's just. It's just them and Billy Joel and Eminem. It's all I was.
Speaker 2:You actually. He's not joking people.
Speaker 3:He really loves the.
Speaker 2:Marshall Mathers. Yeah, early in was pretty untouchable stuff, oh yeah. I can't when he had a camp, you know, and as I blew me away.
Speaker 3:He was actually one of the little girls. Yeah, Haley was.
Speaker 2:That's where she went. She didn't go away. His mom knows that it's a hard life.
Speaker 3:You know how old we are. His daughter's like engaged.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's crazy. It's weird. It was to him, so he does that. So Ethan Hawke goes out in this big scene of like a real release, like he's finally waking up, he's burning. There's only about 18 minutes left in the movie, though A little bit too much left to where I'm a little sus.
Speaker 3:Yeah but you don't know that in the theater so right, theater You're believing we're our conclusion yeah, we're on the cusp of yeah, yeah, here we go. Okay, good ending Cool.
Speaker 2:It won't be as memorable, but awesome because you're rooting for him so he burns it. Whatever you sit in the box playing in the background, gets his wife out because we're effing leaving. Yeah, you know, I don't think he says that.
Speaker 3:He doesn't.
Speaker 2:It's some pretty, it's some colorful.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he just says we're effing and then we're leaving. You know what Respect yeah.
Speaker 2:Respect. Get it in Boom, bang boom.
Speaker 3:Boom to capitis.
Speaker 2:So he does that awesome moment burning them, shows the fire zooms out, shows them they go back in, they load the car up and they bounce.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he says we're leaving. We're leaving our stuff. Right now, we're leaving our stuff. We'll call them movers tomorrow. That's brilliant. I'm about to move.
Speaker 2:That's exactly how I want to move that actually does sound like a way to do it, I'm going to pack that Movers be here tomorrow. I'm gone To the point where you get pulled over by Fred Thompson.
Speaker 3:Okay, so you know. What's so great, though, about the sheriff in this is that this movie observes expectations. Two ways. I held up three fingers just now. I don't know why I did that, and I did it in a very strange way.
Speaker 2:That's why you had a case of the dumb. It's not your fault brother.
Speaker 3:Yeah, everything in the brain does not work.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to laugh at you up with maple syrup, put you on some pancakes. A little strawberry, a little glossay you call it glaze A little homemade whipped cream. You know what I'm saying. I'm so sorry people. I know exactly where you're going with it and I want to hear it.
Speaker 3:This is most of the time in movies like this. You have the character that is not on board with your protagonist, who eventually comes around to help for the greater good. Not the case here. The sheriff is like I want you out of here, I don't want you to be my problem anymore.
Speaker 2:And he's kind of reasonable.
Speaker 3:And he's kind of reasonable. He doesn't give him a ticket.
Speaker 2:But he actually asked if he's bullied.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he asked if he's bullied, but in a way to preserve the town from his writing.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Not because he, whatever. So I thought that was an interesting move and that that leads you into the conclusion, which is also it also goes against expectations.
Speaker 2:Yes, which is why we're still talking about this movie. I think if this movie concludes how we're believing Cop lets him go in pretty wholesome moment they're leaving. He looks at the camera panes of the kids in the back. They're leaving to a beautiful home.
Speaker 3:Beautiful home. Oh my gosh, I could understand why the kids didn't wanna move.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what the heck.
Speaker 3:Because they were. The house they moved into was like a three bedroom, two bathrooms, two bedrooms.
Speaker 2:Hey, so Porter says so a $2 million home now, yeah, yeah right, 15 dinners and then it cuts to Dagom Wayne Manor where you have this elaborate four-year with the steric spiraling. Steric not spiraling but like a as a steric case. He gets wood. He gets wood as it's raining, by the way, makes a perfect fire as it's poking it Right it is a mansion that he's living in it's gorgeous and he has a conversation with that same professor.
Speaker 3:It used to be me. You take it from there.
Speaker 2:No, well, because you're like okay, he finally did it. You know you've been watching a movie, like when you're in the theaters for an hour and a half. You can't just scroll over like I do and see the. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you get almost like okay, here comes Mike Tharsis, right yeah, and if you're not thinking it in those words, but you know it's coming, it's a feeling we've felt in so many movies.
Speaker 2:And then he talks to him and then he keeps ignoring, you know, throughout the day, like him and his wife were making jokes, like she goes, I bet he doesn't have a night terror tonight, their son don't, you know. And he keeps ignoring the deputies. So and so calls, so and so calls. He gets, he already, and told her too in a beautiful moment that he's not even gonna write the book anymore. Yeah, and she goes, you promise, and he does. Yeah, and you believe him. You've seen it. I mean, he's seen the devil. Yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, he's gonna leave that behind, yeah. And then he talks to the professor and it's like okay, one really really cool thing that for me saves what would have been a criticism.
Speaker 2:Back in the second act and a little bit of the first, we see that Begull can move in images, really famously in that one computer screen where he literally faces him and turns back. A lot of people had issues with that to look. That's a still image, but I think and then this harkens back to it that actually makes it even cooler and I'm glad it was left in is because and this is totally a minority point of view. Most people hate that. Once he realizes that Begull uses images as portals to our world, then you realize like he doesn't play by the same rules.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like if, even if you have an image of him, that's probably because he wants you to, so he can manipulate it. Like we can't really understand we like we can't understand portals to the netherworld either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what I mean. So.
Speaker 2:I liked it. It gave us a little bit of. I liked it too. You did, yeah, cool, yeah, I like the fact that this is a Babylonian demon, you know that, old, that consumes children's souls and can travel through pictures.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he asked. He said what could he? What would happen if you like, got rid of the pictures?
Speaker 2:What would happen if you Burn them?
Speaker 3:And he and the guy doesn't answer the question he says what kind of Are you? Yeah, you got it, what kind? Of book you writing. But he also said, in that same breath, like he said, what are you talking about in real life? What are you talking about in the story. Yeah, what would happen? Because what kind of book are you writing, bonechilling?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like that was such a great exchange.
Speaker 3:What are you messing with?
Speaker 2:Yeah, when he ends that call. I felt so hopeless For you For his character.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I did. It's almost like you know already.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause he. Then he finally takes the deputies, call Mm hmm, and then he's like he's like what you find out.
Speaker 3:There's a connection to every house, like someone who's looked in the house where the murders happened. They've moved someone. This has happened to them again.
Speaker 2:Yes, like, for example, the Sacramento murders. Those people lived in the house where the other murders happened you know ended up happening later, If that makes sense. So they move yeah. Accidentally move into the house where a bad murder happened, and then they move yeah.
Speaker 3:Yes, and then this that happens.
Speaker 2:So basically yeah. So the deputy says hey, you messed up. And he's like what do you mean? Because you moved.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so interesting, because then you well get into, get into what happened and then I haven't thought about it. The ending, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, so that call, that call, that call was a knife into my stomach. Mm, hmm, he goes. You moved Because the connection to every single one of these is when you move is when he murders you so he does get bullied.
Speaker 3:Don't leave the house in a way Like the sheriff was like he gets, he like taunts him enough to get him out of the house so that this can happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's wild, that's true. Yeah, it was. You're right, it was night. I mean the noises everything.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was all scare tactics to get him out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's crazy. And then he hears that and then he also realizes that because he finds after he has that has him melt down more tapes.
Speaker 3:More tapes, more home videos, mm hmm.
Speaker 2:Extended cuts. Yup, he parses them together. Cuts the super eight, puts them together Cause we saw he learned how to edit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was going to say the most unrealistic part about this movie is that he Googled how to edit the super eights and then just turned around and did it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Hey, he's eating, hot, yeah. So you see these, you see that image of the family hanging. Yep, and then you see Stephanie come out of nowhere.
Speaker 2:And the tree she climbs down. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And she just comes out and then starts swinging on one of the bodies like it was a jungle gym On her dad's ankles. That terrified me. Yeah, that was bone chilling, yeah Same.
Speaker 1:And then you realize that was hard to watch.
Speaker 3:Then you start seeing all these cuts and you realize the missing kids are not directly the culprit, but they are being used as conduits. Essentially, they're the murderers. They're the murderers, but it's all. It's all very Pied Pipered by the Bagool. All right, bagool Bagal.
Speaker 2:Bagool, mr Boogie, yeah, boogie Knights. Yeah, paul Thomas Anderson, great little film. I'm a bright, shining star, wow.
Speaker 3:Special boy. I have not seen it though. Oh, never mind yeah.
Speaker 2:It's about.
Speaker 3:Weiner. Well, I know about the Weiner, Of course, of course I know about the Weiner.
Speaker 2:We brought that home with him. While we're good, right, is that prosthetic? That's good and it is a prosthetic. Sorry, mark. Yeah, sorry guy, yeah what do you think you are Good for him, though. Well, what's a pro?
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I mean for a year. I bet people didn't know that. Right For the internet. Yeah, but that kind of thing you can't really use to your advantage, because Right, because then when they see the real thing, you're like wow, lil' Vianna, no, no, I agree because so the kids?
Speaker 2:then they do that sinister. There you go Looking face to the camera. Which is wild that it's filmed, but that's his thing. You know what I mean. You just have to accept that, yeah. And then he realizes I still think about this transition because so his whole world crumbles. In that call he puts the extent of cuts. He sees the kids murdering these families. One of them is dancing around with a knife to cut the throats all of it and before that you see him displaying a lot of symptoms of having some neurological issues.
Speaker 3:This is great yeah.
Speaker 2:Because he realizes.
Speaker 3:He looks at his coffee cup and realizes the coffee was.
Speaker 2:There's a glowing neon green sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah, realize that he has been. I don't know why he didn't say that before.
Speaker 2:That seems strange. That was at the bottom. It was at the bottom. Yeah, with coffee, though you see his little note from his girl.
Speaker 3:that's a good idea, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so creepy. So two places here where it well, one really where it subverts expectations. He got off the drink yeah, at least that's how I interpreted him drinking from a coffee mug, so it's funny. It's kind of ironic that he got away from the drink.
Speaker 2:Sure put it in his whiskey right.
Speaker 3:Well, right, yeah, but from a literature standpoint, like it's just kind of funny that he turned away from the drink in a very Jack Torrance kind of like mentality, and yet coffees I wonder if he's licking his lips, Coffee's what's killing him.
Speaker 2:Kills him in the long run. It's aversion. Yeah Well, that's what I'm saying. He really, he does have full 180.
Speaker 3:And you also, I think you also just think the straightaway is it's gonna be Trevor, right Cause he's cause it seems like he's.
Speaker 1:He looks like a freak.
Speaker 3:Well, you feel like he's possessed because of the night terrors, but it's not. It's the one character through the whole movie who is saying can we move back home?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's interesting. I never thought about it.
Speaker 3:It's the daughter, who is like which and I don't know at what point in the film did.
Speaker 2:Well, we are given that scene she's laying in bed and when the dead little girls are apart from her and she does paint a hanging tree.
Speaker 3:That's true, and that's when the wife realized that was so funny, cause that's when the wife wanted to move back home. And he was like what? Because our daughter drew a picture Like it was family. That was a great delivery. It was incredible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he was, and you let her play in the backyard. He was why wouldn't I? Yeah, cause he doesn't believe in the supernatural. Yeah, he didn't care. That's already happened and done. Yeah, you even get voyeur POV shots when they move into the house, by the way, from across the way, the camera tilts ever so slightly.
Speaker 3:It's a very Hitchcock thing to do. Yes, I love that yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that and it mimics the super eight we saw in the beginning. So you're given signs that this is not gonna end well. Yeah, yeah. So he falls to the ground, right there Falls to the ground, coffee cup goes, and then you get the cuts and it goes to him. You see his wife's body and they're roped up and go ahead.
Speaker 3:No, I was just gonna say that you're gonna get to it. But the whole neck tilt thing. You notice that right Like throughout you see the kids like kind of tilt their head, yeah. And then at the end, when the kids are in the super eight film looking at the daughter and she tilts her head, it's all because you tilt the head to show that the book is behind them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, they do tilt their heads throughout. Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 3:It's like they're letting you know I'm not doing it, he's doing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then they're puppets. Yeah, and then she goes, lizzie Borton.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yes, you don't see it, but that picture she drew of mommy, daddy, trevor and all of their yeah, they're separated. That's worse than seeing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because there's a great artistic decision there.
Speaker 3:There's something grotesque, there's something worse about seeing something heinous through the artistry of an innocent child. Yeah, and that's what we see is that's what we see it in a lot of movies I mean you got to put in your head.
Speaker 2:this little girl cut the heads off and the legs off and the torso. Of her mommy her daddy.
Speaker 3:And then that film joins the super eight container and it says what does it say? Like house paintings or something like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean two of them had to watch and then one had to watch. So your mind again, your imagination does way more damage than showing.
Speaker 1:And this is not that movie.
Speaker 3:This isn't Sol. Yeah, you know Right.
Speaker 2:It's better.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Way more effective for me and you get the most grisly gruesome ending after a story arc, after a redemption arc Completely subverted, and which is why I think we're talking about 11 years later. And then that's not enough and you get that guttural like lo-fi music when the bull is in the scene. I thought that was really kind of like the nun. The nun kind of does that. Yeah, that's true. The nun too, by the way, comes out this next weekend.
Speaker 3:Losa New York. Nun too Die Harder yeah.
Speaker 2:Those are both that. Yeah, Nun does Dallas. But then she looks up right and the kids in the pain or in the superhero film run, yeah, she does the head tilt and the goal's behind her and he just scoops her up, Just picks her up.
Speaker 3:And then walks into the film, walks into the film.
Speaker 2:And this and that house is so beautiful it's going to resell. Yeah, You're gonna get great prices in a tough market. Yeah, which?
Speaker 3:is. You know? It's funny. He says that in the movie that it's a tough market because it is now.
Speaker 2:But it was a tough one then to sell yeah.
Speaker 3:That was like it was a buyer's market then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks, bud. People don't even know the interest, but I say all that to say this ending has stuck with me for the last decade.
Speaker 3:Sure and.
Speaker 2:I think it will forever. I think it's so well done. It's like you said, it's a red expectations in such a way after redemption arc that it just hurt all the more. And it's so brutal because it's done by that little girl. Imagine Whitney axing you up. It's inevitable.
Speaker 3:She listens to this or sees the haircut.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I thought this was neat too, though. This movie for me I wanted to see if you, because this is where we get some interesting thoughts, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I thought it was like a kind of a keyhole into a modern Okay, so the ghoul goes all the way back to Babylonian times.
Speaker 3:Probably.
Speaker 2:Further, but there's records of him. We're given that, but I thought this was kind of a like an ultra modern because, like now, 2011 keyhole into Pennywise.
Speaker 3:I thought it could have been. I couldn't see that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2:Each kid.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'd better say as soon as I heard him say like each kid's.
Speaker 2:Also in my head. I made it canon with skin of merink, and this is the skin of merink demon. Oh, because it's a house, right, they're both everybody. Oh, I don't want to spoil it, but you get it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I get it. I follow you. That's interesting. Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd like to ask Kyle at the ball.
Speaker 3:Yeah, let's get him.
Speaker 1:Let's get him and Scott there. We got the ghoul.
Speaker 3:We got the ghoul Conference call.
Speaker 2:You got the ghoul. Huh who what? I did the ghoul. I do a double leg takedown. I'd get him. I'd get him from behind, yeah.
Speaker 3:So here it is Brandon. Yeah, I'd like getting him from behind Done Challenge accepted.
Speaker 2:Also the yellow rain jacket. One of the damned children.
Speaker 3:Yeah, a fairy, georgie.
Speaker 2:Georgina.
Speaker 3:Is that her name? No, I named her. Oh, that's what you named her, right, because you're crazy.
Speaker 2:But also felt like I thought it was kind of neat when I saw Ethan sitting there in the sunrise, shot behind him, fell asleep on the couch with his baseball bat, did it like it felt it gave me thoughts of, because I guess squirrels were on the brink, because they're a dialogue of a squirrel in like an office building, meaning like here's this man trying his hardest out of places. Stone age tools yeah, against something that's never going to work Right.
Speaker 2:He just felt so out of place. I do love the stress inducing on against the other world. I thought that was well played where you believed it. I do like another. I'm giving some highlights where the wife said there's other ways to provide.
Speaker 3:Do you think she means?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yep, I do Again their dialogues are so believable.
Speaker 2:But I think that I think this movie is brutal. I think this movie is amazing. I think too one of the things Scott Derrickson, the director, said, because all the other movies you know show light over darkness. Actually, the memory rose and this one, he said I wanted to create a vacuum of darkness where there's no light in this film. He said that's what this is. It's its own vacuum. It's not something you'll probably replicate, but it really is just darkness. There's not a positive angle or light in this. The good guy gets it, you know, and again, it's like high school.
Speaker 3:What'd you say? I was just like high school.
Speaker 2:I do think, like some criticisms where the jump scares, where his face comes off the side again yeah, I didn't vary him the daughter tells him to at the very end before she kills him. I'm going to make you famous again. I thought that was weak because it's adding some intricacies. Unless that points to Bagoul having used that before he was even born to get him into this situation because he wanted his daughter, that line is weak otherwise not enough to make this notch down at all.
Speaker 2:It's just crazy. Cargill saw the ring, had a nightmare, and now we're talking about it.
Speaker 3:It's so funny that this movie was based off a dream, because of watching the ring. But there's so much homage to Stephen King and specifically the shining, because the shining was made because of a dream that Stephen King had. He had a dream that he hurt his son and he woke up in the night and just went to go sit on his balcony and just thought up the shining.
Speaker 2:That is crazy because I heard also I don't know if it was an on writing, but he was saying too, he had this plays right into. That probably could led to the dream was he had a thought. He was just thinking one day I had a thought where I could hurt them. Yeah, I'm sure.
Speaker 3:I'm sure it's mad enough, I'm sure it's spawned from that dreamy head. Yeah, that idea of like, yeah, you're capable of it, 100% you can, isn't that crazy? Yeah, it's terrifying as a husband and father.
Speaker 2:Yeah, great, I know that you have that power yeah yeah it's scary. It is a very scary thing.
Speaker 3:Even though it's something that either one of us would ever do.
Speaker 2:just the fact to know that you can, that you, that you have the ability to that's terrible, it reminds me is I can't remember the band, but it was neat there's this lady in the front, this Christian best performing, right, I believe it was Blondie that you're thinking of.
Speaker 3:I think it was Heart of Glass.
Speaker 2:It was some Christian band and ladies. He's saying all these things later because he's going, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he started talking about some kind of like slash preachy. You know, that's why I say Christian. They were talking about a subject I guess the song was about. It's a pretty story, I don't remember a lot. And he goes and I could cheat on my wife. She goes, oh no, and he was talking about the importance of like guardrails of a God centered relationship of protecting you because you can do it.
Speaker 3:You have responsibility. Yeah, you can do it. You can do all these things.
Speaker 2:You got to know that and that helps you better to you know descend.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank God. But I also thought this movie isn't cheap, it's not gory, it's just horrifying, with real characters, selfish ambition, a lot going on. I think too, this is a really cool tidbit and I can kind of pass to you for your thoughts on the ending and stuff, what Scott Derrickson in an interview said, that fear. One of the big things he likes in a theme, in all horror, is fear. He said this one is fear of not being important anymore. Uh-huh, he says, and that keeps him in the house, that makes him lie to his wife and that makes him not turn the film over to his cops. To the cops, yeah, fear of not being important anymore.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you see this moment where he's about to call the cops when he discovers the film and discovers that there's a second and third and fourth and fifth, and he's calling and then he looks on the shelf and he sees Kentucky Blood or whatever it's called.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that was a hit 10 years ago. And he's like no, I've got to tell the story. And boy, that's just where it becomes a parable, Right, Uh, which every I think every good horror movie does that, whether the protagonist comes out on top or not, because a lot of times in parables they don't yeah.
Speaker 2:They don't come out on top. Yeah, great point. So, uh, thoughts on the ending.
Speaker 3:Um, yeah, you're right, the ending is something that stays with you. Um, there's not many movies, and we talked a while back about Goosebumps books that we read growing up. None of those have good endings because they they they give you this false ending, just like this movie does Great point, and there's always something of it. Now it's not quite as finite as this ending but, it always kind of leaves off on a hey, the kids that actually not make it out of this or a different kid or different families in trouble.
Speaker 3:So it's just so interesting that we have these movies, and that's what's so great about making these horror movies like this because this is the one genre, the only genre really where when you walk into it now other movies do it too, but horror is the only genre that you walk in and you think I don't know if they're going to make it yeah.
Speaker 3:And I have watched so many horror movies, most of them bad. Most of them might be stirring. When I say bad, I mean they're not like quality horror movies and 50% of the time your main character gets it. Like 50% of the time everyone dies and so it's super interesting. It's the only place where you're not safe. Yeah, and for them to do a movie like this, where they give you this family cookie cutter almost salvation of an ending, and then it's all ripped out from underneath you and everyone gets it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it marred me it did. I always have a scar from this movie and I love it for that.
Speaker 1:Call me a masochist.
Speaker 2:Well, I thought it was really talented filmmaking too. It is this made me. I've not already seen the other ones. They were good, but Scott, derrickson and Cargill have earned my ticket forever yeah. Forever, they're doing the labyrinth. They're in that David Bowie movie remake.
Speaker 3:Oh nice, they did Black Phone.
Speaker 2:Black Phone was phenomenal, See, they're going to have. You heard rumors of a grabber prequel.
Speaker 3:Really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's cool I hope so.
Speaker 3:I do too. I hope so. I was just thinking on the way over here of how again Ethan Hawke in that movie there's a there's a scene where the kid these kid naps says like I could scratch up your face, or something like that. And he like he's wearing a mask and goes this face.
Speaker 2:I have that mask.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know, I've seen you in it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, weirdly enough, that is weird and nothing else. This face Isn't that fascinating.
Speaker 3:Yeah, is this the grabber? Is Begull the grabber? Yeah, I know what? Yeah, kind of in the way yeah. They love. Like he wanted, scott Derrickson wanted to be a good actor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they love like he wanted. Scott Derrickson wanted to make his mark on like the kid horror movies.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and he just ran with it. Yeah, he sure did.
Speaker 2:That's starting to get weird. No he has two sons. He loves them to death. Yeah, it's something in his life.
Speaker 3:Well, that's probably why it's more terrifying to make a movie like this 100%, because this was harder for me to watch, even though I know what happens because I've watched it now, now that I'm a father, yeah, it's harder to it's harder to face that stuff.
Speaker 2:It had added dynamics for me.
Speaker 3:Or a mom or a guardian of any kind.
Speaker 2:What, no, yeah, what are you laughing at?
Speaker 3:No, I'm just saying like. My wife can't even watch horror movies. Now she loved them, but since our daughter's been born she can't watch them.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Since she's been pregnant, she can't watch them.
Speaker 2:No, I know.
Speaker 3:Because the last one we watched, something really bad happened to a kid and she can't do it anymore. That's why it'll probably come back, yeah, once she gets tired of her kid.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly right, that's probably what it is. Remember, people, if you take anything away, that you are the monster. Yeah, I think there's a lot to that actually.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure, but in this case it wasn't the case. Yeah, in a weird way. Yeah, sometimes it's a demon. Yeah, sometimes, sometimes it's an actual demon. What a cool name, but Google, yeah.
Speaker 2:I wonder if one of them was just choking on soup and they said we don't name it. I'm sorry people who chokes on soup. Look who eats soup, not me I do. It's not substantive enough for me. Okay, I'll butt chug it. Nice Trouter, we covered the illustrious Sinister 2012. Yeah, 2012 horror masterpiece.
Speaker 2:I hope you guys enjoyed it. Now here's where I want to ask you people would that nice five star view and share with your very thick mothers, your Pixar mom mothers, please? Again, that helps us live the dream. We really appreciate it and comment down below on your review the scariest movie you've ever seen. And may I now ask you, bobby, give me one of the scary, what you would consider two-parter either the scariest movie you've seen and one that you absolutely know you could not watch alone.
Speaker 3:Or is that even a reality?
Speaker 2:for you anymore. Or is it 33-year-old man? 34-year-old man?
Speaker 3:Like, is there one that I can't watch alone?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's a good question. So as far as, like, some of my favorite movies are scared like, what's scared, very specific, um To get under your skin the most. It truly brings fear to your heart the most. So this is probably just let over from childhood, because if I watched it for the first time today as a grown man, it wouldn't do anything to me.
Speaker 1:Gotcha.
Speaker 3:And I think it's just the original 1990s. It was with Tim Curry.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because I saw it when I saw it way too young, like a lot of people my age saw it too young when it came on TV.
Speaker 2:It's like a rite of passage. It sounds like yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it bothered me to my core. And then I tried it again when I was 18 and I was like, okay, well, it's not as bad, but just the image of him. If there was an image of Tim Curry as Pennywise in front of me and the new Pennywise, bill Skarsgård, if I had to pick a door to go through, I'd go through the Bill Skarsgård Really. Yeah, the other one bothers me too much.
Speaker 2:I guess I didn't watch it young enough. It looks too real. Yeah, it looks too realistic, dude. What about that scene where he's coming closer and closer and closer and they're looking at the picture?
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, those movies. Pennywise always bothers me. Yeah, I can't, I don't think.
Speaker 2:I'll ever be able to read the book. This had a Rob Zombie Pennywise.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Keyhole version. Yeah, okay, I'll tell you another one, not Rob, Zombie yeah. This is hard as a kid and teenager to watch. Different now maybe, but of all these slasher guys, I mean, obviously Halloween are my favorite. Michael Myers is my favorite of those characters, but I had a hard time with Freddie. I knew you were going to say that I had a hard time with Freddie.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Growing up that one was difficult.
Speaker 2:That's really interesting.
Speaker 3:I did it in one of those that I watched before. I was ready for it kind of situation. What about you?
Speaker 2:I think the only thing that would get me get me now are Exorcist type movies. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I have a.
Speaker 2:I think they're the only thing I can be wrong Right.
Speaker 3:The Exorcist is a and they did a prequel movie in the early 2000s called Exorcist to the Beginning and there is some hard scenes in that. I actually I watched that movie in high school with some friends and we're watching it, we rented it, and we're watching it and my parents done lights out and there's a part where this guy have you seen? The movie.
Speaker 1:I don't know Go ahead, I can't remember.
Speaker 3:This guy is like crawling through this crawl space. He knows there's a demon around. He's already confronted them. He's crawling on like the army crawl in this tight. He's underneath a church or something and so he's like dirt rock on all sides and he's got a lantern and the lantern goes out and of course you know it's coming. But it's so scary and the lantern comes. He hits the lantern and comes back on and the demon.
Speaker 3:She's right there and my buddy is sitting in a recliner and he it's the highest pitch scream I've ever heard in my life. He somehow jumped and him and the recliner went back a full foot and a half.
Speaker 2:It was fantastic. Yeah that sounds amazing. Horror is the best group films. Oh, 100%. It's just so much fun, especially in a theater. Hereditary's up there, hereditary's pretty bad Sanitizer, like if I'm by myself at night. See, that's one thing where I think you have to set the mood as an adult to really get scared by yourself at night. Put that in your mind by yourself at night, and most things are going to be a little scarier, a lot Conjuring, yes, conjuring's very effective.
Speaker 3:When my wife and I I'd seen it, she hadn't. When we watched, when we watched the Conjuring, she said no, no, no, we're not going to bed now, we have to watch another movie. Yeah, cleopatra and the Cleans the Palace, did you say?
Speaker 2:Tatem on there or something, something a little rom-com, yeah, but yeah, those, well, you know what We'll do an episode where we have more specifics. Yeah, I haven't seen the Blair Witch Project in so long but I remember getting there's a specific paranormal activity that got to me, I can't remember which one. Yeah, there's one like very specific.
Speaker 3:Yeah, those are kind of creepy.
Speaker 2:The Strangers. Honestly, the Strangers is terrifying.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's terrifying. It's terrifying.
Speaker 2:Home. I just got goosebumps Home alone in the dark watching the Strangers. That might be the pentalline scary film that would be.
Speaker 3:Oh, especially the real pinnacle of that I went to a few years ago. I went to a bachelor party and it was a cabin situation and it reminded me so much of the Strangers Watch, that alone in a cabin that you've rented out in, like Gatlinburg yeah, gatlinburg, blueberries and the like that I'm getting chills. Yeah, you would be. I would be terrified.
Speaker 2:That would be such a miserable experience for me that I think I'd have a physical reaction. Yeah, I probably would too. I think I'd be in like either a meltdown in a corner yeah, I would hate that. Just talking about it makes me really sad. Yeah, that would be really tough See how neat and magical is. That's why we love movies and we care about what they make us feel before we go to the dissection, because we're talking about just watching moving pictures on a screen.
Speaker 2:We're having visceral reactions For me. Sinister is one of the very, very, very few that ever did that for me in a movie theater.
Speaker 2:Yeah it was tough and so we wanted to cover it. People get you ready for spooky season, get you ready for Halloween, you Halloweenies, that's what I look down and say. And then but I hope you guys enjoyed it we have the Nun 2 coming out, nice Between this and next, and so Bobby and I will talk off air about what we're going to do. I would tease it if I could. I know the Nun 2. And we can talk. Maybe we go the Nun Nun 2, make it a thing.
Speaker 2:Maybe we just do that and couple another horror. Maybe there's no time, we just do the Nun 2.
Speaker 2:But, we're going to be doing a lot of horror. We might get a couple in the can, even release a little extra episode, but just know it's a lot of horror. Spooky season is here and horror is where the heart is. Again, we hope you've enjoyed your time. We love coming. That's it, that's the sentence. So I mean, who doesn't? So again, if you do give us that five star hitter, that five and a half star hitter, which is more than enough, and we preach again this is the after hours, right, folks? We love you guys. We love horror. Most of all, we love God. We love our lives, our wives, our wives, like I love my life, I love you. Remember that in Home Alone 2. Tim Curry yeah, and the clown in that thought that was interesting. Oh, marge, yeah, stephen King is still King. Scott Derrickson Cargo gave us an amazing movie in Sinister. Go watch it now. It's actually just on, I think, amazon Prime. I think you can just watch it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is, I already had it purchased.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can just watch it on Amazon.
Speaker 3:You can, yeah, it's with. If you have Prime, it's with. That's amazing. Yeah, yeah Great freaking movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, watch your backs tonight. Watch your kids. They might kill you while you're sleeping. Right, begulls sent them, you got Ken, you got Rob. We watch way more movies and you see it. People, sorry people.
Speaker 1:Open the pod bay doors. Hell, I'm sorry, dave, I'm afraid I can't do that. Here's Johnny, can I help you? Yes, my name is Bob James.
Speaker 3:Bob, make your lives extraordinary Hi Wrestling.
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